(I have no idea about the reference to something I "took down." Every post on this pattern remains in public view.)
Edited 11-20-13: I see today that StephC has now deleted all her comments from this post (which you can see the remnants of below), so I'm adding them back here because I think they belong as part of this original posting.
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Well, you spent an entire week laboring away at posts about how much you dislike my work, I considered it necessary to respond in some form. I chose to respond kindly and with actual knowledge/evidence to address your issues. I think that's pretty decent of me, and useful. I'm pleased you made this post, it means we get a chance to chat publicly about this, which is great.
You don't know more than me about sewing. I have been sewing at least twice as long as you have, and my exposure is wider. I don't see why I should ignore what you wrote. You were very obviously and deliberately calling me out, personally, however much you cloaked it in concern for the community and addressed me as "indie pattern designers." My name is Steph, pleased to meet you, Debbie.
If you care about the community, I suggest you find a way to fix pattern sizing and start a company of your own. Why not?
When I first read your posts (a week after they were published), I was *devastated* because I had in my head you were a sewing teacher. All I could think of was "How could I completely miss the mark with a teacher?" Much of the way I approach the work has to do with making the sewing accessible, to create the simplest/best sewing experience for relatively new sewists, based on continual observations in the classroom.
Then I realized you weren't a teacher and that your criticisms were either :
1)difference of opinion (not a big deal, but please don't act like your opinion is gospel because I'll roll my eyes super hard. Circular neckline binding is hard for beginners/ints to handle so it's symmetrical, and it’s boring to me to write and teach binding again. Facings open up greater design options, when executed well).
2)lack of understanding about the process (we nested the bodices at first because it's cheaper to print, and rejected it because it was cluttered and crazy looking and difficult. We opted for clarity, even though it's more expensive to print and ship.)
3)your lack of skill. I'm sorry, your neckline gaped because you didn't follow the instructions. That's all. I am not trying to put you down, I am not taking out a bad day on you, and I did you the human courtesy of addressing you directly here. It is a simple statement of fact that the neckline gaped because you handled it poorly. That's not my fault.
Anyway I figured I could address some of your issues, through knowledge and explanation of techniques.
I am not unreasonable, I am not unkind, I am *excellent* at customer service, thankyouverymuch. Had you written me a *word* of an email, a whisper of an Etsy conversation, a tweet, ANYthing, I would have been right there to help you out with your concerns. You did not. Instead, you chose to do what you did here on your blog. That is fine and is your choice. I am helpful, I am good at what I do, I turn myself inside out to teach great sewing practices and get people making things, and I answer my customer service emails swiftly.
If you expect me to be obsequious on top of that, too bad.
Instead, you chose to do what you did without any notification to me. Somehow I'm a jerk? No way, friend.
I don't mind criticism, I don't mind being disagreed with. Check out pretty much *anything* I've ever written. Criticism makes the work better, and anyone who doesn't understand that is a nitwit. It was laughable what you wrote about owning up to mistakes. I do that, I have done it several times.
But here, I did not do anything except *gasp* defend myself in fairly mild terms. Is it also offensive that I have the temerity to say I know more about the way sewing/machines/stitches/sewists work than you do, after having taught hundreds upon hundreds of women to sew? I *can* say that, I earned it.
I am really happy to keep discussing but we're going to have a conversation like grown women, I’m not a catty girl who moons bitterly over sour grapes.
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 7:31 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
"The key to a resilient seam in knits is building in as much thread as possible. There are many ways to do this. To declare there is only one way, or one best way, or only one way to teach beginners this concept is ridiculous and doing those beginners a disservice."
Absolutely. I could not agree more, and this is precisely my point. One of several. I teach beginners a certain way because I do it a lot. I know what tends to click easiest. Then, once we've built a basic skill set, we can diverge into finding the best options for the individual. But we have to start some place. :)
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 7:35 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
But Rachel, I don't see how I was rude here. I responded clearly and constructively and directly.
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 7:44 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Hey Anon- I don't see that I attacked anyone personally. Was it my use of italics? I can tone that down, for sure. Instead, I see that I stood up for my work. I am not Burda, I am not Vogue, I am a person who cares about good and useful sewing who also makes patterns.
Why is it offensive that I address issues that arise, publicly when called for? I don't mind someone disagreeing with me, I rather like it, but there were things written here that needed to be addressed because they are either differences of opinion or untrue.
I answered clearly and in the place where the issues were brought up. I did not choose to respond with a snippy series of blog posts or conjecture or personal attacks, but with demonstrations of solid sewing tecniques.
Is this not one of the criticisms against other pattern companies, that they are out of touch? That their techniques don't work? That learning to sew has such a huge steep learning curve thanks to the badly written/made big 4 patterns that it completely turns off excited new sewists?
I am not saying my methods and patterns are perfect, nothing is perfect, but I constantly strive to do better and I've been making patterns for *a year*. Give me five or ten and let's see how we can improve things to make sewing a viable part of 21st century living. That's what I'm saying.
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 8:06 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Hey Catherine- I did read the replies, and was rather surprised by the number of anon commentators (here I am, using my own name...) and also the personal attacks against me... Barbies? Are we being ageist? I didn't go there, and I don't see how it is relevant to the discussion.
No, I don't always do what the customer tells me to do. Yes, that does upset people sometimes. That is a far cry from not caring about my customers. No customer service has 100% satisfaction, but I resent being told I don't care about my customers. Me engaging publicly with criticisms and untruths about my work is me caring, especially when I can back up my words/opinions with actual solid sewing techniques and content I created.
This is not me being "up myself," though I can understand why it might come across as such to someone unfamiliar with the work I do, especially with a headline like this one. Fair enough. I assure you, I don't waste brain cells on sour grapes. I'm also curious what the grapes are in this particular scenario? That's unclear to me.
I haven't attacked anyone personally, I have been clear, direct, intelligent and occasionally used capital letters/italics. I am respectfully standing up for myself and for good work I believe in. I am engaging the community. Isn't that what we want from pattern makers, the thing that is not much done?
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 9:42 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Hey Katie-
I see your point, absolutely. The thing is, I'm not corporate. I never will be. I'm indie. Along with being indie is the right/responsibility to seek out authenticity, to experiment, to change, to grow, to respond. And to have an opinion.
I have thought about it, quite a lot, about indie v corporate and what that means. I came to the conclusion that I can't ride two horses at the same time. I can not talk corporate and be indie. It is not going to work. I figure if I can back up my words with deeds (or in-depth technique videos) and engage honestly and openly, then that's what I would do.
I think I made a mistake earlier on in trying too hard to "sound" corporate, because it's not what I am. Trying too hard to be something I'm not was blocking me every time I turned around, as an artist and an educator. I was trying to do things "by the book." But the thing is, there is not a book for this, for what we're doing. So I choose to engage as a human being, extending the benefit of the doubt as much as possible and never responding to things in anger. Because I am a human being and because y'all are too. Respect.
Twitter is a cheeky, rough and tumble place. If I can't have a sense of humor about things like this on Twitter, then when can I? Does Debbie have a fledgling brand I have damaged unfairly with my remarks?
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 10:56 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Well, I think we can agree to disagree about whether I'm corporate. Technically, my business is registered as a Sole Trader and not a corporation. I'm not Vogue.
I'm not holier than anyone (is this because I refuse to comment anonymously with catty ageist remarks?), but I'm also not going to ignore it when someone calls me out so publicly about something I am sure about. I can see how my self-assurance might be perceived as arrogance but that's not who I am. Don't worry, people have been trying to take me down a peg or two since I was a small kid. I'm used to it, tough hide and all. :)
Also, I haven't ever threatened anyone (as you just did me), just calmly defended myself. So. There's that..
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 11:33 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Hey, Audrey, I absolutely agree with you. I think I come off a little snotty here between the colorful title Debbie chose (seriously, what are the grapes?) and my refusal to stoop to anonymous personal attacks. That's unfortunate but unavoidable, given the circumstances.
I agree with you that it's important to build trust and a relationship with one's students. That's what I do, in the classroom and online. I take my students' sewing seriously and go to great effort to do everything in my power to respond thoughtfully to emails, Etsy messages, Flickr comments, sewingcake comments, facebook and twitter, even when that means I sit in front of the computer typing for hours on end. I skype to sort out sewing issues, too.
That is why I was surprised by such a concentrated blogging effort on Debbie's part, and the fact my customer service has been called into question.
I am not yet able to read minds, unfortunately. If I had had an email, a word, I would have been right there to sort out the issues and check things, to be kind and helpful and responsive. But I was never extended any such opportunity and had to see my work unfairly criticized before the ink had even dried. Fair enough, but there were several things mentioned that are not actual issues on the pattern.
Really, truly, I don't do sarcasm. It's a nasty, mean little beast that terrifies me and translates weirdly from America to Australia so I gave it up a while ago. (These aussies' sarcasm is one a whole other plane and I just can't keep up so I opt out...:))
I honestly like Debbie's dresses and think they turned out beautifully well in both instances.
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 11:45 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Hey Jennifer-
My comments were useful, they are linked to content that will help improve the sewing. If someone left me those comments, I'd check it out and see what was what. I can admit when I don't know something, and do on a regular basis. I might even tweet out or feature good tutorials that improve the sewing, because the sewing is what matters to me.
But I don't think I've ever had a comment like that before, to be honest, because I don't spend weeks at a time blogging non-stop about how much I hate a particular thing. I focus on building up and spotlighting positive things.
I'm curious if you checked out my investigation of straight v knit stitch? I approached it with an open mind, not hiding what I was doing, and clearly showing the results. I also said repeatedly that you have to do what works for you in your sewing room.
I say that all the time, repeatedly, and it's also written into most of what I publish. I don't see myself as a dictator or whatever, I see my role as a facilitator and I take that seriously. And I'm protective about my new sewists.
I don't mind if you use straight and like it, it's your sewing and your sewing room. It's not wrong. But in the majority of cases, it's not right either. That's what I'm getting at. :)
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 11:51 PM, November 17, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Thanks, Audrey. Maybe just maybe we can get a group hug in sometime. ;)
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 12:20 AM, November 18, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Hey Unknown- Yeah, the thing is, I'm not in an ivory tower, I'm being forcibly locked in one and I'm standing at the top of it hollering bloody murder out the window that I don't have the slightest desire to be there. But I guess all you hear is the shouting....
Debbie taught me to put in fly zips and I held her in extremely high regard for many years, directing people to her excellent tutorial at every opportunity and raving about the quality of her teaching.
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 12:23 AM, November 18, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Hey Diana-
I... Didn't say anything of the sort. I actually said (and sincerely meant) that I like the dresses, they're great and I have learned techniques here in the past.
I never blamed Debbie for any kind of sloppiness. The fact is that her reporting of the "errata" was inaccurate. I have a right to point that out.
There's plenty of people from a variety of age groups who sew Cake. It's lovely, and this kind of kerfuffle doesn't happen. I am at a loss about why this keeps becoming an issue of age, am I really so threatening? Why is that?
OH! Hamster power! I love it! Mine was too, a very temperamental but solid Kenmore thing in a "harvest wheat" kind of color... :) I wonder what happened to it...
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 12:41 AM, November 18, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Sure I do, and I appreciate your concern. *They* are also concerned and wish I would learn to keep my fool mouth shut and told me so. Flip is not indeed my intent, I'm quite open to a constructive and clear dialog, and I knew by posting I'd get the chance to chat about things. I think it's likely a communication style issue, that's kind of you. I tend to call a spade a spade and get on with life, and yes, I know that gets me misunderstood sometimes. I definitely could have phrased my comments that were posted above in a softer way, absolutely. At least I didn't threaten anyone, right? :)
I didn't say never! :) Not at all, that's the thing.... If it works for you do it. But- it's not really a good default, it's not safe. I like to play it safe for my newbies, I figure ints-advanced can and will do exactly as they please, but if I beginner tries to sew something and it falls apart, she may well walk away from sewing forever and that's the part that bothers me. I've seen/heard it happen too often, and to be perfectly honest it's why I'm doing what I'm doing. To get people to love the sewing, and not fear it.
I didn't want to start a pattern company, fwiw, I did it because I saw a galling gap between the types of clothes people wear and the ones we're offered to stitch. (No, I don't think all other patterns are bad, that's not what I'm saying..But there *is* a definite yawning gap.) I did it because people kept telling me I should. I did it to keep busy. I did it because I figured I could make a difference in sewing rooms and stoke the fires of the 21st century sewing revival. I did it because I have devoted hours and hours of my life to "translating" poor instructions for people in classes as I taught them the art of pattern surgery.
People get to thinking that sewing is a really really hard thing to learn, some kind of almost magical skill and it's not. The learning curve is really steep at the beginning due to the way 20th century sewing is set up, and I don't think it has to be. Sewing is a skill that a LOT of people put to use for thousands of years, and it's joy. Like cooking, really. Everyone eats, everyone wears clothes.
I did not start Cake because I'm an ego-maniac or a starry eyed idealist or an ivory-tower dweller or a jerk or whatever may be thought of me.
It's far too much hard work to keep going with only that as a motivator. :)
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 3:15 AM, November 18, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Well, I didn't see that as a remark on age but on experience in a particular field, but ok, I see what you mean. I did not mean "shut up, I'm better" at all. I did very much mean "if you sew it this way, your neckline won't gape." Because... It won't. Like you said I said, I respect the work Debbie has done especially in the area of fly fronts. I can't tell you how many newbs I sent there over the years.
Like a little child? Point taken. How should I respond in the future to a similar situation, so as not to be so childish? Not responding at all doesn't work for me. Is it the italics and the capital letters? I am not being sarcastic, I want to know.
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 4:06 AM, November 18, 2013
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StephC has left a new comment on your post "Sour Grapes?":
Fourkid- I am so humbled that you took the time to craft those responses. Thank you.
I *do* want to track down all the bugs. They annoy the living daylights out of me because they get in the way of the sewing. I brought an editor on board.
When I saw the errata posted here I was sick about it and assumed Debbie was right. Because why wouldn't she be?
I dropped everything I was doing to go check, only to find next to nothing, and to see my customers worrying and upset themselves here unnecessarily.
There *is* a small difference between the midriff and the bodice, but it is less than a seam allowance. I checked the pattern when I saw the post, and found nothing like what was mentioned except a 4mm difference in the bodice lengths when laid out end to end as she did. When cut, this is not a huge difference and not when the pieces are laid on top of each other for seaming.
I knew the pattern would be alright when it arrived and hoped no one dumped RV in the bin without opening her up. Besides, I'd been advised to let this alone.
I'm learning what you mean about fast response off the cuff, and will go to bed and then go work.
Thank you again for the wording suggestions.
Posted by StephC to Stitches and Seams at 7:23 AM, November 18, 2013
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Interesting comment about the straight stitch. Peggy Sagers, who has been in the sewing world for quite some time) has recommended (and uses in her sewing videos) the longer (3.5 to 4) straight stitch for sewing knits. I've been doing it for some time with great success.
ReplyDeleteLinda, I also use a basic straight stitch, about 3.5, but I scroll over and add just a tiny amount of zigzag to the stitch. I really love how this works.
DeleteWow, I was going to mention Peggy Sagers as well. At my age, I have determined that there is more than one method to achieve success. Whether related to sewing or another endeavor. I read this blog because I value what you have to say about sewing (plus I think your funny!) Sorry that this turned ugly.
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is "WOW". Now as far as straight stitches on knits, Even Marcy Tilton teaches using a straight stitch with a size 12 universal needle. But from what I have learned from owning different machines you have to find what works on your particular machine.
ReplyDeleteWow. I was not entirely turned off Cake patterns after your Red Velvet saga, but I sure am now.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the 'slight zig zag' stitch camp for stretchy knits, but mostly I'm in favor of what you said...test, test and see what works for you.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I believe the lightning stitch is an invention of an evil mind and NEVER EVER use it for any reason whatsoever....
Wow, really sour grapes. Sounds like someone can't handle criticism. I hate when that happens--you give an honest opinion of your own personal experience and get e-flogged. I guess the last time you checked this was your blog--right? And freedom of speech is still in effect--right? I understand what you wrote a few blogs ago about the price for indie patterns and finding drafting or design flaws. If the big 4 are prone to errors, why not indies? Steph needs to chill and refine her approach to her craft and her customers.
ReplyDeleteWow. I've been sewing since forever. I have always used a straight stitch on knits with never a problem. YMMV of course. I have a sewing business- i would NEVER write to a customer like that, or even anyone not a customer. That's just rude. I guess I know now that I don't need to sell her patterns in my store.
ReplyDeleteI mostly use my serger to sew knits so I can't comment much on the straight-versus-zigzag debate. I can say that when I use my sewing machine to stabilize the shoulder seams or sew very small areas (pleats, gathers, etc.) of a knit, I've had no problems with a straight stitch.
ReplyDeleteThere is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do things in sewing. The right way is what works for you.
Someone was having a bad day and with that kind of attitude she will be having a lot more. I find it hard to believe that she has developed a successful business with such poor customer relations.
ReplyDeleteWow. Have to say that I am really disappointed in StephC. I have followed her progress in starting Cake Patterns, and I just would not have guessed that she would ever have responded in this way. Cannot accept criticism, it seems. Sorry to say, that does not bode well for Cake.
ReplyDeleteJust a note about the facing - I recall that Steph has been really interested in vintage patterns, and I suspect that her preference for facings-even with knits-comes from that. Old patterns with knit facings initially put me off from sewing knits - for some 10+ years. I would also advise anyone to remove them whenever possible.
As for straight stitching - Jamie also recommends this (at least on the 2 patterns I have used) with the initial zig zag basting. That method works quite well and has resulted in enough stretch for the activewear pieces that I made.
Anyway, thank you for the 'enlightenment.'
Oops. Jamie = Jalie.
ReplyDeleteWhat a shame that your expertise was met with such a defensive response.
ReplyDeleteA wiser patternmaker could have made good use of your experience and your suggestions, and a wiser business owner might have taken advantage of an opportunity to show how devoted she is to satisfying her customers.
Feh!
Wow. Just... wow. The level of maturity in these (StephC's) replies is just astounding. Put me in the straight stitch camp, too. Except for hems on fitted dresses/skirts, I pretty much use a straight stitch exclusively. In conjunction with serging, of course. In fact, many years ago, when I was a young sewist trying to sew with knits for the first time, it was those darned stretch stitches that turned me off of knits. Because of that, it was many years before I gave in and tried again. Now some of my favorite projects are knits... made with that straight stitch.
ReplyDeleteWow. Apparently someone "forgot" about cut and paste and snipping tool! I don't care at all for the current selection of Cake patterns, and this attitude ensures that I will never buy a pattern from her. Badly played Steph.
ReplyDeleteNot just Peggy Sagers recommended a straight stitch on knits, but Ann Person, who created the entire Stretch and Sew line, taught to use a straight stitch on knits. I think you are in good company, Debbie, and that the Cake Pattern person is incorrect.
ReplyDeleteAs always, there is more one way to pull off a technique in the sewing world. What strikes me here however, is the retaliation. This was a perfect opportunity to "rise above" but Cake seems to have decided not to take that road. And this response when you were happy with your finished garment that you were happy with. Oh, well. So sorry this all had to play out this way.
ReplyDeleteA few months ago I noticed these types of responses from her to others and I saw some comments on Colette Patterns blog that were of.the same vein. Needless to say I didn't care for the attitude and I won't purchase anything from her. Ever.
ReplyDeleteCount me another that is surprised at the reaction. I was looking forward to purchasing my first CAKE pattern but now will do without.
ReplyDeleteDitto what everyone else said.
ReplyDeleteSheesh. I will not be buying Cake patterns. Her responses to you were reprehensible: condescending and nasty. BTW, I always use a straight stitch when sewing knits.
ReplyDeleteI used to follow her blog and stopped because I didn't like her attitude or beliefs. Well, her attitude on customer service is unsurprising. I guess she forgot that you actually need customers to have a business.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny - just a couple of months ago I did a great workshop with the Aussie renown Suzanne Gray who has been working with knits and sewing with knits as a specialty for years and she said - jokingly of course - that if anyone used the lightning knit stitch she would come around and slap them. Straight stitch was advised with wooley nylon in the bobbin if you have it.
ReplyDeleteSo sorry that it all got this far! The smart business person would immediately issue an apology & offer whatever it takes (within reason) to make amends for the ungracious responses & the problems you encountered. Hope she comes to her senses.
ReplyDeleteNana
Golly. This has been a very instructive story, although the interesting parts of it have little to do with the question of straight stitch vs. zigzag. I fully understand that Steph has so much of herself invested in her patterns that it must be very difficult to respond to balanced critiques or concerns without defensiveness, but you've just given us a thorough lesson in why it is so important to rise above those feelings when we correspond.
ReplyDeletehow unfortunate! not surprising to me though as i receivd a similar response when i questioned particulars about the tira several months ago. thought i probably just caught her on a bad day, but maybe not...
ReplyDeleteI'm flabbergasted that Steph would handle herself this way. She could have just said she was happy you liked your final dress, yes? Her patterns are not my style at all so I would not purchase in the first place. I sew knits all the time, and I seriously don't even know if any of my machines have that damned lightening stitch - I would not use it if they did. Give me a straight stitch any day, thank you. I have a strong dislike of knit facings.
ReplyDeleteNow there's a way to promote your product...NOT! I have used a straight stitch with knits with great success and I'm sure I've been sewing longer than StephC has been alive. The key is the fabric and you stitch with what works. I prefer to serge most knits if at all possible. I will NOT be buying Cake patterns.
ReplyDeleteI think *some* (not all, thankfully) of the newer independent designers may start believing all that adoration they receive from each and every new blog post and pattern issued. It can go to your head. Ask any politician. :-)
ReplyDeleteI thought your posts were quite helpful and contained useful, constructive criticism and advice. I wouldn't have made the effort.
:-)
Wow, she has been believing her own publicity it seems.
ReplyDeleteHer pattern styles don't suit me so I wasn't going to buy any anyway, but now I've no reason to recommend them.
If valid & experienced critique isn't listened to (and not replied to until she's over feeling injured) then I wouldn't hold my breath that the range will continue to improve.
I find it amazing that so many young women are deciding that they are great designers when the patterns they are selling are in many cases basic sacks with a fancy name. Also it seems six months or so sewing makes them an expert. There was a reason Anne Rowley won the Great Britidh Sewing Bee, she had sewn for years and knew her craft inside out.
ReplyDeleteI had a poor customer service issue myself with a well known online fabric store and decided some people need to go take an online Customer Service 100 -series class.
ReplyDeleteUntil they do so means I am no longer buying from them. And I will tell my 13 peoples.
I value your trying all these patterns and giving your honest opinion. I have bought a few patterns because of your recommendations.
Amazing. There was "tone" even in the very first exchange, and it was downhill from there. You didn't deserve the condescending attitude at all when you did everything to be fair about your review. This line will not be for me.
ReplyDeleteI first heard of StephC when she followed back a link that had been posted on a sewing board for her free top pattern. She offered unsolicited advice then as well. Her tone then and now is that it's the user's fault, not the pattern or the designer. And that she is improving and revolutionizing the craft of sewing without really understanding what she is discarding. I cannot believe she actually scolded you, Deb, for suggesting that a straight stitch was a valid choice in sewing knits!
ReplyDeleteSteph, here is some unsolicited advice for you. You control the design, your pattern, your blog, your website. You do not and can not control what other people think and say about your work or any other aspect of sewing. Respect that and you will earn so much more respect in return.
Mary Deeter, not only does Steph not believe in the straight stitch for knits but doesn't believe in serging seams either, the entire RTW manufacturing world be damned.
My first sewing machine back in 1974 was an old Singer with only straight stitches, no zigzag stich to be found. I sewed all my knits with a straight stitch with a longer stitch length. I am not a fan of the slight zig zag stitch, it has never worked for me. You really have to test the stitch on all types of knits to see what will sew the best.
ReplyDeleteI for one have learned a great deal from reading your blog. I thought your critique of the pattern was constructive.
Wow! I guess Cake is doing so well they don't need my business either.
ReplyDeleteI read today's post and went back and read every post and comment that related to the Red Velvet Dress. At first I thought you were a little hard on the pattern when you started but I noticed you, repeatedly said you liked the design and were hopeful you would come out with a nice dress; and you did!. I for one get frustrated and if it wasn't for friends I would give up. Then I reread the feedback that StephC provided to us. None of it was helpful, respectful, or necessary.
ReplyDeletejane in CT
I'm not really surprised at these comments. I had an "incident" with this person a couple of yrs ago on PR. She has not been my favourite since then. So surprised I am not.
ReplyDeleteI also do the straight stitch on knits.
I have no doubt that we will hear more from this woman. Bring it on!
Been lurking, per usual ..;), and I admire the lengths to which you go to create a piece that works .. for YOU. You spent a lot of time, ingenuity and effort on that dress, and you're NO beginner. Your efforts in communicating the situation were earnest and constructive... looking to improve
ReplyDeleteyour efforts with her pattern.
Smart business people acknowledge these intermittent glitches politely and say I'm sorry it's not working for you, how can I help .. blah blah blah.
But she has violated the first rule of having a successful business: respectful customer service and treatment .. NO MATTER WHAT! Terrible, possibly deadly error in judgement.
Now, she's lost at least one customer for sure and many more likely. No matter what the reason, excuse, bad day, whatever .. a smart business person does NOT lose their cool like that... certainly without coming back fairly soon with a humble apology.
Some folks, like Peggy Sagers, know it's smart to go out of their way to guide customers using her patterns .. even to the point of a phone call I've heard.
You conducted yourself respectfully in good faith. Sorry you had to experience that, but thanks for putting this out there.
(Is this where we say thank goodness for the internet? ;)
~Joy~
Uh, WHAT? I am shocked at the tone of these posts (Steph C), and as others have stated, I will be steering clear of these patterns as well. Apparently she can only deal with those who tell her what she wants to hear.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately I've also had a bad experience with Steph.
ReplyDeleteI agree that she has handled this badly. I can understand that it's tough to have your patterns criticised but that is part of the business, and should be an opportunity to improve, especially when the criticism comes from an experienced sewer like you. And the customer is always right. As for techniques, there is often more than one right way. The first response was almost on the right lines - explaining her different point of view with supporting instructions - but the others should have been private discussions or not at all.
As I've said before, I feel strongly that we shouldn't create an environment where it is not "allowed" to post a negative review of an independent pattern.
The special stretch stitch on my machines stitch soooooo slow that it would take me months to finish a garment. I always use a straight stitch and I make goo gobs of knits. Just saying...
ReplyDeleteYou know, I have to say... StephC, please, please, please, step up your game. There's no reason that a businesswoman needs to behave badly, especially on the internet.
ReplyDeleteI looked at the Cake website, and was tempted, but I vote with my dollars, and poor customer service is a deal breaker in my book.
And honestly, Debbie, I've followed you for a long time, and any time I open up my blog reader (Google Reader and then Bloglovin after GR abandoned us, ugh), yours is ALWAYS the blog I look for new posts from first. So much so, that even my husband will ask from time-to-time if you have anything new. Keep on doing what you're doing. :)
Wow....Regardless of what you posted about your adventures with this pattern it is Steph's comments to you that has damaged her brand. Like other posters I also use the straight stitch (3.5-4) as advised by Peggy Sagers and have had a lot more success in my sewing with knits.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to read that Steph's comments have prompted others to mention the bad service they also received in your comments section. She really has
created her own demise here. I haven't ever purchased Cake patterns but will probably not do so in the future.
Your review of Cake didn't necessarily scare me off her patterns, but her responses sure did. She even mentioned you on twitter. Strange that she's taking your review so very personally. I agree with everyone above; I won't buy from a place with such bad service.
ReplyDeleteAhhhhh! To be young again and think that you know it all ~ her time will come ... J
ReplyDeleteI thought you did a fair evaluation of the pattern, eventually creating a dress you like. What Steph should have learned from your experience is that the pattern needed a bit of tweaking so a less experienced seamstress could successfully make the dress.
ReplyDeleteI was on the fence about Cake patterns but this debacle has guaranteed I will never buy one. I would much rather deal with companies who value their customers, such as Silhouette, Petite Plus, Sew Chic, and Jalie.
I was absolutely floored about the straight stitch comment! Not sure how she learned to sew, but I think some lessons got lost in the mail.
Kudos to you for sharing your honest opinion of your experience. I've seen way too many complimentary blog posts where it turns out they have all received the pattern for free. I have signed up to follow you on BlogLovin' Keep on posting the truth!
ReplyDeleteThanks for both the honest postings about the pattern and sharing the responses you received.
ReplyDeleteI am more than tired of the reviews that claim patterns are nothing but wonderful. I want to know what I might need to look for for should I give the pattern a try.
I also want to know if a pattern designer is apt to start trash talking should I post my honest opinion. Frankly I don't want to support anyone who would write such nasty, nonproductive things in response.
You did the right thing. Too bad you are left putting up with this woman's nonsense. Twitter comments, too? The lady has some anger management issues.
In response to someone asking about constructing the patterns with a serger, StephC replies that sergers weren't intended for this purpose and are "...not appropriate for seaming." I know that some serger thread is not the same quality as sewing thread, but I didn't think the end result would be "...dreadful for constructing a solid seam" as she claims. I've been serging for eight years and, like I said, always use my serger with knits. I've never had a problem with seams falling apart. This just points to my original comment that there is no right or wrong way. Just do what works for you and keep it moving.
ReplyDeleteI don't think she handled the criticism well and that's unfortunate for her and the company.
Well, that's sorted one thing out for me. I was trying to figure out how I was going to fit the Hummingbird skirt pattern into my pattern buying budget - now I don't have to!
ReplyDeleteI'm one of those people who uses the zigzag stitch on my machine for knits. And I have known to use a small facing every now and then. But even if I wholeheartedly agreed with all of StephC's suggestions, her tone was completely unprofessional (and unacceptable). My nana used to say that sometimes you just have to 'rise above' - which usually just meant keeping your mouth shut. I think someone should have reminded her of that!
I thought your reviews were fair. I hope this unpleasantness won't prevent you from continuing to give us all your feedback on your experiences.
I had one company that I'll never buy from nor recommend EVER threaten me with a law suit simply for asking what their design background was as in I'm curious, what does it take to be able to design and sell patterns. Stunned me.
ReplyDeleteWow. I guess at 10:34 on November 15, she packed up her Barbie dolls, went home, and told her mom she hates you.
ReplyDeleteWhat an appalling response! I will never order a pattern from this company now.
ReplyDeleteAnd she wrote these responses which means she had time to think about what she was saying unlike a shop clerk who might behave badly in the heat of the moment.
Customer service isn't about "playing nicely," it's about treating the people who make your business possible with respect and listening to, rather than dismissing, their product needs.
Sad to say that I had a similar bad experience with Cake, which has really dimmed my enthusiasm for making the patterns I bought and participating in the RV sewalong. As a professional writer, I have to deal with criticism all the time -- it's just part of the job, though it's tough. Took me a long time to realize it wasn't a reflection on me...words can be changed. Use feedback to help you grow!
ReplyDeleteDebbie, it's so refreshing to read a blog that hasn't fallen prey to the 'I was supplied all this stuff for free but PLEASE believe me that this is my HONEST opinion' - yeah, right. ;-)
ReplyDeleteLike a previous commentor, Stitches and Seams has always been one of the very first blogs I look for in my reader. You do such a marvellous job and are incredibly generous with your time. I love your honesty and I have learnt a LOT from you over the years. Thanks for another eye-opening post.
PS. I tried using a straight stitch on a knit garment yesterday for the first time (I usually use my serger) and it worked very well. :-D
I missed that she says to use the lightning stitch. I wouldn't use that stitch if you paid me! I either use a very narrow zig zag or a straight stitch to sew knits. In fact I saw a video on Jalie's blog on sewing knits with a straight stitch. She's just amazingly nasty.
ReplyDeleteDebbie, thank you SO MUCH for sharing these nasty emails -- seriously! Even more appalling than the emails this Cakewoman sent to you are all of the comments other Cake customers have left stating that they, too, were attacked and ridiculed by this pattern designer when they went to her with their problems and concerns about the patterns they purchased from her. On her contact form, it clearly says "Sewing support and customer service are important to Cake Patterns. If you have a question, comment or critique, please feel free to use the form below to contact StephC at Cake." That bears repeating -- she is ASKING customers to tell her if they have a problem with her patterns!! When someone with as much sewing experience as you do reads that nastiness, at least you know which one of you is the crazy b****. But what about new and inexperienced sewers who reach out to her when the pieces don't fit together properly and they can't get good results with her pattern instructions?
ReplyDeleteI hope this blog post comes up at the top of Google every single time anyone searches for "cake patterns!"
I read this post this morning, and it has taken me this long to comment. I just can't find the words to describe how I feel about this young woman's attitude and behavior. Someone needs to remind her that she is in the real world, not back in high school. Sending you snide emails is one thing,(and bad enough) but to post on twitter about you has taken it to a whole different level. It seems to me that she has very publicly tried to embarrass and discredit you for having your own truthful opinion. An opinion that could possibly help her improve her business and sales, by improving her product. Instead she has alienated a great number of her potential customers. It will be interesting to see how she retaliates to this post. Do you think she will see the error of her ways or send us all nasty emails? Keep on doing a fantastic job Debbie. I look forward to you next post!
ReplyDeleteWow, just wow. I generally love indy patterns - but will leave this one off my list.
ReplyDeletePatti
Dear Debbie: I read your review and subsequent posts regarding this pattern and found the extensive review and successful completed garment very encouraging. I was intrigued with Cake patterns but a little shy to spend the higher cost with my intermediate sewing skills. After reading your review and explaining some of the pitfalls I felt this was something I could succeed with and put this pattern on my 2014 to purchase list. Uh, not so any more.
ReplyDeleteDebbie, I hope you continue to write strait forward reviews that continue to show readers how to recognize, define, and problem solve in order to achieve success no matter where the problem originates. Your review showed me that I can take a chance with downloadable and Indy patterns. Too bad this gal doesn't see the value and use honest reviews, such as yours, to move her business from okay to good or great. Instead she lost a potential fan base. Tisk, Tisk
I left a message through my feed reader but I don't think it showed up.
ReplyDeleteHer response is not *rad* at all. Although if you were a more efective sew-ist, this never would have happened (replace "sew-ist" with "educator" and that was my week last week). :) Hot Patterns is not my fan, and got all snippy with me too. I have never dealt with Cake and probably will not after this.
Debbie, I came here to take another look at how you did your neckline when I saw this post. Because sorry. I have NEVER seen a knit dress in RTW with a facing.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I want to THANK YOU for posting your opinions, pattern alterations AND also for posting Steph's response. I'm sewing along for the Red Velvet, and I find her tone to be condescending and snooty in many of her posts.
Such a shame.
I guess the customer is always wrong?? The only businesslike response from Cake would have been to beg you to be a pattern tester and offer you free patterns for life. Even if she secretly thought you were a beeyotch ;) Your criticisms were all legitimate even if she disagreed. How many other customers is she willing to lose to win an argument with one customer?
ReplyDeleteOn StephC's earlier blog, she invited readers to post reviews of fabric shops in Brisbane, where she lives. I wrote that I loved Gardam's fabrics, and said why I loved them.She responded that the staff had a bad attitude, I think she used the words 'snooty' and 'stuckup' or something to that effect. I've never found them anything but delightfully helpful and passionate about quality fabric, but I didn't reply. I still love Gardam's but her comment changed my mind about her blog and her character.
ReplyDeleteI have not tried any Cake patterns but I do sew knits of many types with a straight stitch and ballpoint needle. I have been sewing for over 50 years in case that matters...:) It is a free country and everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. The fact that constructive criticism is not well taken does not bode well for the future of this pattern company, imho. And I only use neck facings if there is no other way to finish a neckline, lol.
ReplyDeleteDebbie I admire your huge sewing experience and the way you so generously share your knowledge and experiences with the on line sewing community.
ReplyDeleteI also admire Steph for having a vision and setting up her company. It takes a lot of work and courage to do what she has done and I applaud her courage and her vision.
It seems your disagreements have escalated from differences of viewpoint. I hope you both can put this behind you and move forward putting your energy into your both considerable talents.
Perhaps the name of this post should have been 'Cake Wrecks'.
ReplyDeleteThe key to a resilient seam in knits is building in as much thread as possible. There are many ways to do this. To declare there is only one way, or one best way, or only one way to teach beginners this concept is ridiculous and doing those beginners a disservice.
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ReplyDeleteThey may have conflicting viewpoints but StephC didn't have to be so rude! That's not the way to keep clients and gather more.
ReplyDeleteBut Rachel, I don't see how I was rude here. I responded clearly and constructively and directly.
ReplyDeleteDebbie it's your blog and you wrote and in my opinion you reviewed this pattern and company the way you have done other patterns in the past.
ReplyDeleteI imagine if every pattern company reacted this way for every negative review. Sewists are always commenting negatively on some Burda magazine issues, vogue releases etc I don't see those companies getting all personal and attacking the bloggers?
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ReplyDeleteDebbie - wow this cake person is way over the line! Sorta scary! Your reviews are helpful and useful. It is always good to hear real life experiences. Information is good. Not everyone has the same experience but the more I know about a particular project the better the outcome.
ReplyDeleteTake care.
Jtl
Debbie,
ReplyDeleteAll I can say is wow. I thought your review was fair, and you made a great save of the dress.
Wow! Holy crappo.
ReplyDeleteTo me the scary part is that Ms. Cake doesnt even see where she has been rude, up herself and so unrealistic in her recent replies. I hope she reads other posters comments on their dealings with her in the past so she realises her attitude is the problem, not Debbies review of her pattern.
ReplyDeleteSo shes been doing it longer, so she thinks shes a better sewer, designer, teacher, whatever. Her replies to Debbies review have reduce all that experience to nothing because of the way she has handled herself and in fact behaved like a spoiled petulant child.
Such a pity. She has the up and go & the brains too, so it seems... but that attitude is going to trip you up every time.
Hey Catherine- I did read the replies, and was rather surprised by the number of anon commentators (here I am, using my own name...) and also the personal attacks against me... Barbies? Are we being ageist? I didn't go there, and I don't see how it is relevant to the discussion.
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't always do what the customer tells me to do. Yes, that does upset people sometimes. That is a far cry from not caring about my customers. No customer service has 100% satisfaction, but I resent being told I don't care about my customers. Me engaging publicly with criticisms and untruths about my work is me caring, especially when I can back up my words/opinions with actual solid sewing techniques and content I created.
This is not me being "up myself," though I can understand why it might come across as such to someone unfamiliar with the work I do, especially with a headline like this one. Fair enough. I assure you, I don't waste brain cells on sour grapes. I'm also curious what the grapes are in this particular scenario? That's unclear to me.
I haven't attacked anyone personally, I have been clear, direct, intelligent and occasionally used capital letters/italics. I am respectfully standing up for myself and for good work I believe in. I am engaging the community. Isn't that what we want from pattern makers, the thing that is not much done?
StephC,
ReplyDeleteI'm assuming your twitter account is your corporate account. If so, then I strongly suggest you refrain from tweeting things such as "(Also, SO THERE, Debbie cook)"
It is an inappropriate tweet to find on a corporate twitter account - it reflects badly upon your business.
Just something to think about.
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ReplyDeleteStephC,
ReplyDeleteIf Sewing Cake patterns is your business, you're corporate - you may be an independent pattern designer/maker, but Sewing Cake is your business - thus corporate.
You've done nothing to damage Debbie's brand - if anything, you've done the complete opposite. However, I think you've done damage to your own brand, with your condescending remarks and holier-than-thou attitude. You display a very high opinion of yourself, and one day someone is going to take you down a peg or two.
It's just that you make yourself so unapproachable in the flippant and argumentative tone you use while touting your accessibility. I respect that you have an extremely high opinion of your sewing skills and teaching expertise. But as a teacher, I know that I can't reach my students or their parents, until I place myself in an approachable position. I learned over time that I can only teach when I have established trust, And I can't establish that trust without responding to quesions and at times criticisms without sarcasm or condecension. It was hard...and at times I'm still learning! Corporate or Indie, good manners are the same!
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ReplyDeleteCustomer service is most important aspect after the quality of an item (in this case a sewing pattern). I have been considering several Cake patterns for myself and my 3 daughters. However, based on such arrogant remarks and self-righteousness from the owner/designer, I will not be being said patterns.
ReplyDeleteFYI - I do have extensive sewing experience - almost 25 years worth. I can draft a pattern, and adapt a pattern. I sew knits with NO facings - I always remove them! I sew them with a straight stitch!
As a teacher (secondary maths), I will tell everyone you that arrogance and self-righteousness does belong anywhere around students - whether they are children, teens, or adults.
~Jennifer
Katie,
ReplyDeleteI was trying to figure out a way to say exactly that.
Steph, on your blog it says that comments are welcome as long as they are kind, thoughtful and useful or something like that - yet, when you respond to say, Debbie, on HER blog, you show NONE of what you expect on your blog. Debbie's entitled to write her HONEST opinion of your pattern. You spend plenty of time building up your brand on YOUR blog, I'm not sure why you feel so insecure when one blogger writes her opinion.
On the whole straight stitch or not thing - I have yet to have any item of clothing "disintegrate" because I dared to use a straight stitch. Please - you are doing beginners a disservice by declaring that your way is the only way. It isn't. You are not the end all and be all of sewing.
So you started your own pattern company, good for you but you have a long way to go with your attitude. It's also funny how you write on your blog that the big 4 are all badly written, etc etc. For someone who can't take criticism of her own patterns, she sure can dish it out!!
Take a few steps back and look at the criticism objectively and constructively, maybe you can learn something.
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ReplyDeleteMaybe this conversation will provide a learning curve for all of us. Kindness towards each other will help us to survive in this crazy world of ours! Always be open to honest questions and criticisms. Good luck with your business.
ReplyDeleteNope, StephC, you are a jerk. You can go one of two ways, you can stay up there in your ivory tower and pout your lip and keep saying to yourself, "they are trying to take me down a peg and I won't have it" or you can find out that you are a human being after all who is sometimes wrong, completely wrong. I don't know you, it doesn't matter to me either way. Debbie Cooke is a teacher, the best kind. She is the kind of teacher that the Chinese proverb tells about, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear". You have much to learn from her, grasshopper.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Audrey. Maybe just maybe we can get a group hug in sometime. ;)
ReplyDeleteHey Unknown- Yeah, the thing is, I'm not in an ivory tower, I'm being forcibly locked in one and I'm standing at the top of it hollering bloody murder out the window that I don't have the slightest desire to be there. But I guess all you hear is the shouting....
ReplyDeleteDebbie taught me to put in fly zips and I held her in extremely high regard for many years, directing people to her excellent tutorial at every opportunity and raving about the quality of her teaching.
I agree with Bunny Holy crappola!!!
ReplyDeleteDebbie, keep doing your thing, you do it so well!
StephC, for pity's sake shut up and move on.
Tina
StephC -
ReplyDeleteDebbie has never set herself out as a sewing expert. She enjoys sewing and is willing to take the time and effort to create a delightful blog. She makes no pretense of being the last word on whether a pattern works or not, just how it turned out for her.
The snide remarks that Debbie is responsible for sloppy pattern drafting leaves me at a loss for words.
I have purchased many patterns by independent companies after seeing a garment made up, but how you have handled this whole affair has guaranteed I will never purchase or recommend your patterns.
Glad you already have so many happy repeat customers that you don't need us ignorant ancient sewers. (My first sewing machine was hamster powered)
Hey Diana-
ReplyDeleteI... Didn't say anything of the sort. I actually said (and sincerely meant) that I like the dresses, they're great and I have learned techniques here in the past.
I never blamed Debbie for any kind of sloppiness. The fact is that her reporting of the "errata" was inaccurate. I have a right to point that out.
There's plenty of people from a variety of age groups who sew Cake. It's lovely, and this kind of kerfuffle doesn't happen. I am at a loss about why this keeps becoming an issue of age, am I really so threatening? Why is that?
OH! Hamster power! I love it! Mine was too, a very temperamental but solid Kenmore thing in a "harvest wheat" kind of color... :) I wonder what happened to it...
StephC - do you have a trusted associate who can provide honest feedback? Perhaps they can look at the responses you have written and figure out why things are being taken as they are. It could just be a communication style. At the very least the comments are coming across as flippant remarks and that may not be your intent.
ReplyDeleteAs for the age thing, many of us here were at the beginning of the knit age and have successfully used the straight stitch to sew knits. The idea that a straight stitch can never be used on knits is just ludicrous.
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ReplyDeleteSteph C, this is not a matter of age, but a matter of experience. And that's something you brought into the equasion by remarking that you sew twice as long as Debbie. As in: shut up, I'm better. That's where the Barbie remarks come from: you behave like a little child.
ReplyDeleteI've been sewing for 40 years but have never enjoyed it more as in recent years, since discovering the online sewing community. I love the interaction, I love reading reviews and honest opinions. As you mentioned yourself: Debbie taught you how to put in fly zips. See?We can all learn from each other, no matter how long we sew. But keeping an open mind is very helpful.
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ReplyDelete[StephC said]
ReplyDelete"Like a little child? Point taken. How should I respond in the future to a similar situation, so as not to be so childish? Not responding at all doesn't work for me. Is it the italics and the capital letters? I am not being sarcastic, I want to know."
[Reply from Patti]
The italics and capital letters would be a good place to begin. Just don't use them. Ever.
Let's take what you did write and see what can be done with it.
For Example:
I'm so sorry to hear that you struggled with the neckline facing. It seems that people either love them or hate them, but I have found that by using a facing it opens up a wider world of neckline shape options. Since installing a facing can be tricky, I have worked hard to insure complete and detailed instructions on all the steps to insure a beginning sewist will have success. Thank you for your helpful steps for using a neckbinding. Many do opt for that technique.
Example #2 concerning errata:
Drop the whole first sentence. Then - I checked over the pattern carefully and just am not finding the printing error you have described. Did you opt for no scale or 100% scale when you printed? That should have been ok. If you did that could you describe the error once more for me? I would really like to track it down. (*Note: if after carefully checking how it is described to you and you still don't find the error - reply with something to the effect of - I am still not getting that particular error to replicate for me - but I will make note of it and see if any other customers report a similar experience. I really want to track down all bugs as much as is humanly possible. Thank you for your input.)
Example #3 concerning the lightening stitch:
Obviously this is an important subject to you. I would not use anything you wrote in this example. You over reacted and took it too personally. How about something along the lines of....
I do mention in my instructional video to experiment and use the stitch that best suits you, but in teaching beginner sewists, I have found that the lightening stitch or a zig zag stitch offers the best long term result.
On the twitter comments, I don't twitter so can't really help there as I don't really understand it - but the "SO THERE" in caps and "debbie cook" in lower case is just insulting no matter how it is sent.
In this era of fast responses, maybe slowing down a bit would help you. You mentioned that you have advisers - maybe you could run your responses by them before sending it out publicly, then they might be able to offer ways to make your off the cuff reactions more service friendly. I once worked for a lady in a similar on-line business. She had myself and 2 other ladies that she often sent her replies to for editing (softening!). We offered suggestions and then she made he adjustments as she saw best. It saved her from a lot of these very same issues. (btw - I am not fishing for a job - just passing on experience.)
Blessings,
Patti
StephC, I think this initial messages where a bit too short to make your intentions clear. Online businesses should consider beforehand how to react on issues coming up on the internet so that their first reaction is spotless and does not offend anyone. If you reacted in a more neutral way by mentioning all different canals open for customers to get your help, nobody would take that personally. After reading 15 more messages from you, I think I finally get a better view on your philosophy. Some of that content would have worked so much better in a first reaction!
ReplyDeleteAs to the quality of your customer service: it's only excellent when your customers think it is! Saying you're doing well on that subject is not wise. As long as there is a number of people feeling let down by it, there's room for improvement. That's what I meant by keeping an open mind: don't jump in the defensive mode but take everything in that's been brought up and see how you can use it in a constructive manner.
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ReplyDeleteStephC Just when I thought you were softening your tone of voice, you're making things worse. So, you did find a difference between midriff and bodice after all. I don't recall Debbie mentioning it was off by a mile, but enough to confuse a beginner. Why couldn't you admit it was a little bit off? As for the rest of your reaction, being busy, tired, angry or whatever can never be an excuse to stick your tongue out to a customer. Cause that's what you seem to forget. Debbie is your customer, she paid her money for one of your products and deserves your respect for that reason alone. Dissing her on Twitter may have been satisfying for you on the short term, it also cost you a lot of customers in the long run.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't ask any advisers to read your last comment before publishing it to be sure the tone and content weren't offensive to your clientele did you?
ReplyDeleteJust saying,
Patti
I've been speechless but with a little caffeine have found my voice this morning.
ReplyDeleteWhat are your credentials? I go to "about" on your web page and get a "contact us". I can't find a profile with any description other than a pic and links to your webpage. I am just asking a fair question here as you tell us you are experienced and I am not totally doubting that you are so please tell specifically. I just don't see anything besides your personal affirmations on this commentary. I am not doing comparisons here. I just feel as a potential customer for your product I deserve to know. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place for this info. Hoping to here your response to this.
This is asked because everything I have seen so far on this subject proves out my own theory that many new indie designers will be culled by the market place. There is a plethora of self proclaimed designers sending out less than properly critiqued and tested patterns. My comment is discussing all of them, not just Cake. I have heard the complaints and seen the frustrations regarding situations similar to this one, actually over and over, from other designers. There are some new designers, not necessarily textile graduates, who do amazing work, work that has been tested by experienced sewists, designers who are not afraid of positive critiques because they want their product to hit the marketplace without glitches and dissatisfaction, tried and true. There are both ends of the spectrum when it comes to current Indie designs in the sewing marketplace. I need more info, other than sharp marketing, to make an informed decision as to whether to buy a pattern.
I am not saying that anyone who puts out their product has to have an MS in textiles or design. What I am saying is show me a product that has been critiqued by highly experienced sewists as well as fumbling newbies, not just blogger groupies anxious for a free pattern.I've seen websites where they actually do a "meet the testers" which I think is wonderful. Let me know what's gone into the pre production of this design, the who what and where. Show me your chops, whatever they may be. Then I know you are a company whose product I will consider buying and my wallet will open.
Sewing is seeing a resurgence. There are many newbies in the marketplace which is just downright thrilling. Most don't know a good draft from a bad one. I sure didn't for many years. It is incumbent on those out their who are marketing to them to show some responsibility and make their products well tested. I hate to think of how many sewists will be lost because of the failure of a design or draft and unhappy results.
I've spent a career in straight commissions sales. If customer service wasn't above and beyond expectations, the mortgage couldn't be paid. New Indie "designers" need to show that they can provide the best customer service experience, know how to roll with the inevitable negative feedback, and be open to improvement. As a customer I like to see professionalism and positivity so my confidence is inspired. In sales, you NEVER do negatives. You see opportunities for improvement as well as the opportunity to make a forever friend with your solution. We need to see this in the newbie Indie designers, like any other business.
I am philosophizing here about all indie designers so please don't respond, Ms Cake, with sarcasm, even though you may call it something else. This is my response to this discussion which I think, as said previously, is an inevitable culling of the herd. Business has a way of doing that.
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ReplyDeleteMy goodness. I'm afraid this comments page and the exchanges herein provide a case study for how not to handle customer relations.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading StephC's comments I must say I find it very distasteful when business people act so unprofessionally and rebuke a customer IN PUBLIC. As someone who works at the senior management level in corporate america I have to say that this would never fly in my world and would be considered totally unacceptable and grounds for termination.
ReplyDeleteI just want to say that it seems to me that the tone of the initial posts by Debbie was unnecessarily harsh and then the response to Debbie's posts by StephC was in turn harsh. I've never purchased nor sewn any Cake Patterns as they don't suit my personal style, but I certainly can see why StephC is having such an emotional reaction to these posts. Perhaps everybody needs to take a step back and lay off her? No doubt she's realized that she's made a mistake in the tone of her postings, and let's just treat her the way we would want to be treated. I know she's a business owner, yada, yada, but for goodness sake, she's also a person (and a relatively young person at that). Two wrongs don't make a right.
ReplyDelete"I just want to say that it seems to me that the tone of the initial posts by Debbie was unnecessarily harsh and then the response to Debbie's posts by StephC was in turn harsh. I've never purchased nor sewn any Cake Patterns as they don't suit my personal style, but I certainly can see why StephC is having such an emotional reaction to these posts. Perhaps everybody needs to take a step back and lay off her? No doubt she's realized that she's made a mistake in the tone of her postings, and let's just treat her the way we would want to be treated. I know she's a business owner, yada, yada, but for goodness sake, she's also a person (and a relatively young person at that). Two wrongs don't make a right."
ReplyDeleteAnon, you said it much better than i could have. I have only worked for very small businesses (3-30 people including owners). When you attack a business of that size you attack the owner - and the owner cannot be 'terminated by HR'.
Debbi stood to lose fifteen bucks, some stash, and a few hours. StephC stands to lose her business. Here's to all of us moving towards more constructive conversations in the future, stephQ
This whole exchange reminds me of an incident with another indie pattern company awhile ago. They had sent out a questionnaire by email asking what we (the customers) thought of a new design. I answered honestly that that design was not for me and I did not care for it. That evening, I got a phone call from someone who identified himself as the designer's husband. He proceeded to swear profusely at me for my response! I have never forgotten this - it terrified me for several days for some odd reason. My point here tho is that this continued exchange in public is not doing Steph's business any good whatsoever. She sees herself as right (as did the designer's husband) and is NOT interested in our opinions, not matter what her "customer service" policies are. And why she is having this exchange at all on Debbie's blog is so very inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteWow ...
ReplyDeleteAt first when I read Debbie's initial post, I thought she was a bit harsh ...
THEN I read this post, thought Steph C was kind of harsh ...
AND THEN ... I read the zillions comments Steph C left and lost all respects for her and Cake patterns ...
Now that everyone's feathers have been ruffled, slapped around and torn from their bases, let's all put this behind us? I blog about bad patterns, bad designing, bad drafting, and badly made RTW...but find it a challenge to make it work (thanks Tim Gunn). I don't have time to worry about stitch length or width because what passes in RTW is not always what we use at home. What matters is fit and comfort and ease of use with pieces matching each other which is not the norm. I have verbally wrestled with the big dogs as all of you have mentioned and I have been literally flipped off and told I was wrong, so I take photos and post them to prove my point...we are human, we make mistakes and many patterns have flaws...we just have to make it work or quit purchasing them. These shouting matches just hurt everyone's feelings and could have been conducted privately or on the phone...what an utter waste of time...we all could have put in a hem or two in the meantime.
ReplyDeleteOh, my. All of this just reminds me of the ancient days back in college (late 80s), when rudimentary email was in use at my workplace. I remember one of the scientists, an anthropologist, talking quite passionately about how it would lead to miscommunication because we wouldn't be able to read each other's facial cues. It's so true...I often re-read an email or comment before sending and realize that the jokey or facetious comment could be interpreted as rude or sarcastic. So I adopt a much plainer style, which feels dreadfully boring but is safer. From reading StephC's blog and comments, I think that may be part of the issue -- she has a funny, snarky voice that is coming through as rude. Boring plainspeak may be best for customer service...it's just no fun. Akin to wearing a plain blue suit instead of a frilly party frock.
ReplyDeleteFor all the years that Debbie has been sharing her projects, her pattern alterations, her machine expertise...never did it occur to me to say "but she's NOT a sewing teacher, therefore her opinion and experience mean nothing." As a matter of fact, Debbie is one hell of a sewing teacher; she simply does it informally, online, generously, in her blogposts - at no charge. Disagree with her if you want, but do not underestimate her expertise. Steph, I do wish you well; I hope your company flourishes and prospers, and I hope you come to realize that honest, constructive criticism and praise can coexist. In fact, IRL, that's pretty much what happens all the time. Namaste.
ReplyDeleteOH...and all you people leaving negative comments about the lightning stitch? Never say never. I used it to narrow-hem a bias ruffle on something that was pretending to be handkerchief linen. It looked a bit like hemstitching. Cheap hemstitching, but still..... So glad to have found a use for it.
ReplyDeleteI've never had any feelings at all about Cake patterns but I sure do now - and none are positive. I can add my own pockets, thanks.
ReplyDeleteI have purchased 3 different patterns from Cake in the past. I think many of her ideas are good. I however do not find the one piece sleeve works well for me and my 61 year old body, and did not purchase this particular dress pattern for that reason.
ReplyDeleteDebby I love lurking on your blog and find many of your posts helpful or sometimes amusing. My heart hurt for you when you lost your job and I sung for joy when you got another one.
This is YOUR blog and you reviewed a pattern that I was interested in reading about. You or anyone else do not need to be publicly chastised because you do not agree with the designer.
Steph will just have to bow out ( maybe gracefully) and leave you or me or anyone else with our own, perhaps negative feelings about her brand.
I've been sewing straight stitches on knits for a while now, with no problem whatsoever. Straight stitches are also easier to unpick in knits, I find!
ReplyDeleteStephC, I just wanted to add a comment from the view of a sewing machine dealer/fabric store employee - and someone who has previously worked in other professional service industries for over 25 years. Reputation can MAKE OR BREAK a business and sewers/sewists/quilters (whatever you want to use to describe the creation of an object with fabric and thread) talk ALOT. Not saying this is good or bad, just that it is a fact. Whether you agree with the word "corporate" or not, you ARE a business and therefore dependent on the opinion of your customers for survival. In the last 5 years, 5 machine dealers and 7 independent fabric or quilt stores have gone out of business in my area. A few of them were due to age, retirement, illness, etc. but the majority were due to business issues. Take one look at Yelp and you will see what one person's opinion is worth and what it leads to. I'm a a major metropolitan area so there is a plenty of competition in the sewing machine market place. The only way to keep your customers is to keep as many happy as possible. Will you please EVERYONE, no it's not possible. Sometimes the customer really is wrong, sometimes there are things beyond your control, but you do the best you can to support your customer base. Blogs by their nature are expressions of personal opinions and everyone has the right to express their opinion. You don't have to agree with it, believe me there are plenty of blogs out there that I don't agree with, but you do have to respect the right to HAVE the opinion. The same is true about products. One person can love it, another can hate it and their BOTH RIGHT. Any comment beyond something like "Sorry you had difficulty with this pattern" is neither appropriate nor necessary. I would recommend looking around for someone to mentor you, or a business to use as a guide or example. There are MANY indie pattern companies out there that are doing it right. Find one you like and model yourself after them.
ReplyDeleteStephC- I am only making this comment because you seem to have some interest in understanding why so many of us are thinking your customer service skills are lacking.
ReplyDeleteFirst, even if your customer has a problem with your product that is caused by user error. It is extremely tactless for you to point it out so bluntly. No one likes to be made to feel stupid or incompetent even if the mistake is theirs. (I'm not convinced Debbie's was user error.) Find another way to help the customer solve their problem without blaming them.
Second, never never NEVER pull rank on your customers. Never. Even if you are right- you will lose the customer. (And maybe more if others hear/see/learn about it.)
Third, understand you have a business. That means people are going to use your products and talk about them. Debbie (or anyone else) does not owe you an email or a phone call before they discuss your product. She has every right to spend a week talking about the pattern. How many other bloggers have spent a week or longer talking about one of the Big 4? Do not expect to be treated differently. That's part of having a business.
Remember it is how you make the customer feel. We all only have so much hard-earned cash to put towards are hobbies. Would you want to purchase a pattern from a company with a owner who has a reputation of telling her customers they don't have the skills or the brainpower to put the pattern together?
Arggg- Apologies for the typos in the last post. Little ones crawling on me.
ReplyDeleteDebbie- Thank you for the honest review! I really hope this experience will not stop you from saying what you think about different sewing patterns. I know if I had a blog I would wonder if it was worth the trouble. So thank you!
And yes......there's more than one way to skin a cat. I've used plenty of "wrong" stitches and methods and have gotten wonderful results.
I've been sewing for 20+ (almost 30 years!) and sew a lot. I ALWAYS use a straight stitch and my knits turn out great!
ReplyDeleteI used to have an opinion about Cake patterns and it's owner. It has now changed, thanks to the owner's comments to this post.
ReplyDeleteI've read an article that parents should thinking about their mode of parenting right when they are pregnant. Likewise, it would do businesses great good if they think about their attitude towards customer service and continuous improvement, right during the conception of business at the business plan stage. Any business, even the super good ones, will get some sort of negative response. How they respond, shows character.
Wow. I'm am so not impressed with the lack of professionalism. I've actually made 13 of the Cake Pattern 'Tiramisu' and while I love the dress, I actually had to make quite a few changes to make it work well enough for me. I certainly will not feel comfortable trying another pattern if this is the sort of response I can get to a review that is considered unfavorable.
ReplyDeleteWhile I use a serger for almost all my knits, there are definitely times were I use a straight stitch on my regular sewing machine instead of a zigzag and this was true even 20+ years ago when I was working on the cheapest plastic machine on the market that I purchased when I wanted to learn to sew and only had babysitting funds.
I just had to giggle when I read those messages. Well, she sure told you, didn't she? She wins! She gets to keep all her "oh-so-perfect" patterns all to herself! I think someone needs a time out - and a nice dose of humility.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your blog. Keep up the good work and thanks for your honesty!
Gosh, considering you supposedly didn't know how to check the scale before printing a pdf pattern, someone will surely be impressed you figured out how to put the deleted comments back.
ReplyDeleteKeep up the fine work on your blog. "Keep Calm and Sew On" :)
Kudos Debbie! I think those posts that Steph has now deleted should be kept as part of what happened and to show her true character. Steph, who do you think you are?! First you bash her comments, hijack her blog and respond to commenters and then when you feel bad about it, you go and delete everything you posted. Your true colors have already been seen.
ReplyDeleteDebbie, I love reading your blog, and have done so for years. I think it's quite possible that this pattern line will self-destruct if no changes are made, but do you want to be on the firing line? May I suggest that the last 2 postings and comments be removed from your blog? Just leave your pattern reviews standing.
ReplyDeleteJust a thought. I believe the only hope for humanity at this time in our history is to allow kindness and graciousness to permeate all our dealings with fellow human beings, in spite of situations that inspire other emotions.
Marianne
ReplyDeleteThe Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it
-- Omar Khayyam
No, I don't think I'll be following or supporting either of you any longer. This is ridiculous. Both of you behaved terribly. Either of you could have backed down or simply let it go a long time ago but you chose instead to feed off each other's negativity. And you both seem to have cheerleaders who are eager to cheer you on while piling on the "other guy."
ReplyDeleteI'll be removing both of you from any feeds and other social media.
What a shame. Two bloggers who I have been reading avidly for the last 2-3 years and who I have gained a lot from, both extremely unimpressed with each other in a very public forum.
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible for me not to be disappointed with the process on this blog relating to Red Velvet and Cake Patterns and by 'process' I include all relevant posts and all of the comments on those posts.
I have experienced excellent customer service from Cake Patterns. I am one of the beginner types who has benefited greatly from Steph's pattern sizing techniques. After trying out various knit sewing methods on my 30+ year old sewing machine, lightning stitch has been the only one which has worked. Though I agree, you have to be utterly certain that the basted version is the perfect version, as unpicking just isn't an option.
I live in New Zealand, where all patterns are expensive. So because of that, I don't have a sense that Steph has to provide a premium experience, but of course I would if I was paying much more for her patterns than for big four patterns.
The Tiramisu dress was when I finally hit the jackpot. I'd been making wadder dresses for the previous two years, trying to upskill as I went. I had to tweak the pattern to get the best fit, but no where near as much as for other patterns. So I became a pretty big fan. That's what it's like as a new sewist, and I expect we've all been there at some point in our sewing journeys.
I've never known Steph outside of her blog and Cake Patterns company. I've paid full price for all of the patterns. I've never known Debbie Cook outside of her blog and Pattern Review.
I'm not exonerating Steph's comments on this blog. They have been unwise, to use the gentlest adjective. But I never would have predicted this stoush from two fabulous sewists. I'm reminding myself that although the internet seems to bring some big crashes in terms of online nasty disputes which turn into mass fights, overwhelmingly the internet has made better sewists of thousands and thousands of people through the generosity of bloggers and the entrepreneurial spirit of patternmakers, including and even particularly Debbie and Steph.
I'm looking forward to more pattern reviews on this blog, and to Steph finding a way to build her reputation again.
I'm going to second the above poster's comment. This has gotten out of hand. I think that it would be a kindness to delete this whole post and all the comments. Steph has surely learned a valuable lesson about customer relations. She's had an ugly online spat that has no doubt damaged her company and her reputation. Maybe now it would be a kindness to let her lick her wounds, step back, reassess how she engages with her customers, and start over, without this thread hanging over her?
ReplyDeleteWe get it - you hate Steph, you hate Connie Crawford, your innocent and clueless about why you were fired from your previous job, you hate anyone who dares to say you shouldn't post too much about your jobs search online (not me, btw, although I could tell you why you were fired if you were the kind of person who could listen). Just go get drunk and forget it.
ReplyDeleteThis is Debbie's blog and I really don't think any of us have the right to tell her what to do with her blog. If we like it we follow it, if not we don't. She can post what she likes and I others post rude och offensive comments on her blog it is only natural that she react!
ReplyDeletePattern Junkie and Mrs. Mole. I second that! May I add that I am eternally grateful my silly exploits were never made available on-line, as I am too old for that.
ReplyDeleteCount to ten everyone....
A friend and I often tell each other our troubles. Then we'll joke about what we'd like to say to that person/those people. Laugh some more. Then calm down, and most importantly we tone it down until we come up with some helpful ideas.
I don't do facebook, I don't do twitter, I barely use chat features... my reason is that I don't want to say something in the heat of the moment, and then have to apologize/explain to many people. (Or have it go viral, horrors!) Sometimes I'll even write an email in the evening, and not send it till I've reread in the morning.
Fresh start everyone?
Mary in Thailand
Wow. Hey, if you don't like a blog because the blogger expresses her opinion-- Ta Ta. If you can't handle anything but a glowing review of your product, work harder. If you are going to post comments to a blogger and her commentariat that is condescending, arrogant and full of excuses, remember, this is the internet--it will live here forever whether Debbie takes it off her blog or not (which is up to her). I truly believe Debbie was as fair and balanced with her review and her approach was no different with Cake Patterns than any other pattern company. She is experienced enough to troubleshoot the problems and fix them, which she did-- she did not need to ask Stephanie's help. It is not her job to contact Cake Patterns to tell them errors she found-- instead she can be like the rest of us who just won't buy anymore. I think it is dirty pool to bring in her non-sewing related professional ups and downs in her face.
ReplyDeletehahahahaha hilarious. And sad. But I'm an optimist so I'll focus on the first option.
ReplyDeleteI have had three different run ins with this pattern maker (none of which involved my interacting directly with her, all of which involved my interactions with other users (on twitter and in the comments sections of other people's blogs) which she took offense at and retaliated to. While I found it quite humorous (and indicative of her mental state/attitude at the time) I don't actually buy her stuff or know anyone that does so it doesn't really make it difference to me.
It did, however, make a difference to many of her customers/future customers though, as after one such incident I got 17 different emails for various people online that essentially went along the lines of 'What at b*tch, she's not getting my money'. Some were more polite than others, but it speaks volumes about how bad boundaries (or no boundaries at all) and a lack of respect for other people's right to express their opinion is detrimental not only to mental health, but customer response as well. The day she lost it on twitter, three different people I know in real life muted her instantly. I have had people come to meetups in Melbourne (at times that she's been there) email me to make sure she isn't attending the meetup/the meetup itinerary doesn't involve interactions with her.
So yea, laugh it off (as best you can) and be happy she ain't your mum. Can you imagine living with that day in and day out? Jeez the husband must be a genuinely nice fella (or just completely broken-something I discussed with a psychologist friend of mine-apparently this is textbook controlling behaviour).
Going on a tangent here but ... to the people who are posting "too much negativity! Only say nice stuff! Be kind!", I say women's voices -- speaking out, speaking up, and speaking for -- are generally a good thing. Our opinions and viewpoints matter.
ReplyDeleteI'm broadening the scope here, perhaps ridiculously so, but I think women are expected to always be "nice." When we're also told "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all," then we're basically supposed to "shut up and take it."
Maybe that's okay (even appropriate) in some cases. But in many, many other cases -- bullying, harassment, rape, domestic violence, etc -- it is NOT.
This soapbox stand isn't directed to anyone in particular, and yea, it's kinda out of left field. I just felt it was important to validate speaking about our thoughts, feelings, and experiences, even if they're not "nice" and might upset someone.
**applauds****
Delete